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Simple Planes, SR2 and the Way Ahead

29.8k ChiChiWerx  4.7 years ago

Let me just start out by saying, the SP and SR2 communities are, for the large part, separate. The two communities don't really cross-pollinate, in spite of the Devs' best efforts to make us, the SP community, go that way.

Based on @AndrewGarrison's latest post on the Procedural Landing Gear available over at SR2, I believe the development team wants us all to make the leap over to SR2. This sells more downloads for the new game, returns their time investment in its development and migrates us all over that way. Ultimately, this will alleviate any complaints made about SP once SP support is dropped due to a dwindling community. Potentially, we're a cash cow for Jundroo, but only if we all run to SR2.

Well, that sucks...I view SR2 more like KSP, a great rocket simulator that doesn't scratch my itch because, frankly, the building capability is nowhere near the SP level. Plus the Kerbals are really cute and I kind of care if I accidently kill Jedediah. I come to SP because I can make more or less accurate replicas and builds which can more or less make emulate real life flying characteristics. SR2's procedural landing gear is a great example of what I'm talking about...kind of like the Apple interface in that it's really easy to make a L.G. that kind of works like the real thing, but will never be as capable as the Windows approach of scratch-building your own from individual parts. Plus, being a plane guy my whole life, my interest in rockets augments, but doesn't replace, my interest in air breathing vehicles. Lastly, I have 20.2K points over on SP and nearly zero over at SR2...yes, it may be infantile to care about points, but I really want to get Platinum status over at SP. I'm sure there are more than a few of us who have that goal.

But it doesn't have to be a win-lose proposition for SP vs. SR2. Instead of the Devs' current direction, please indulge me as I humbly draw out two alternatives for Jundroo:

The first is to keep the two products separate and alive. Many years ago, I built R/C aircraft...for me, SP has become my R/C building vehicle. Building an R/C aircraft is expensive, time-consuming and messy. If you crash it, it's gone. SP takes the best elements of that experience and takes away the most disappointing aspects. I'm sure there are others out there who have that same R/C itch, even if they have never built an R/C aircraft. Take SP and make it what we in the community are migrating towards: A way of building and simulating RL and fictional aircraft. Make it even more accurate than what it is, give us accurately shaped wings, true semi-circles, a better drag model, etc. Even if you put out a completely overhauled update AND CHARGE ME FOR IT, I will probably pay for it to stay here. Then there's the question of what to do with mobile. Well, my iPhone 8 runs builds just as well as my laptop. I build on my laptop, I fly on the go with my mobile. If mobile devices absolutely cannot keep up, then do what you're already doing (think Maywar) and make a stripped version for mobile. Keep SR2 what it is, a platform optimized towards orbital mechanics and spaceflight. The community stays, Jundroo wins, the individual has to pay a little more, which I think is a fair proposition to avoid the alternatives.

The second is to migrate SP's building interface over to SR2 and migrate our points over to SR2, then drop SP support. I dislike this option, but it's better than just starting over, though I'd have to relearn how to build for SR2.

Obviously, I strongly prefer the first option, but it's far better than just abandoning the SP community. However, I strongly believe that there's a market out there for the first option, Jundroo just needs to find it. Rightly now the average age of the SP community is around 14 years old and male. There are, however, several of us far older. If you make a truly hard-core building and simulator platform you might find that community. There are other platforms out there, MS FS, Real Flight, etc., but no other platform combines building and flying in a fun, easy to use interface like SP. What distinguishes SP, it’s competitive advantage, the single aspect that takes SP from “good” to “great” is it’s fanning the builders’ spark of creativity into the flame of creation. I think it's worth preserving.

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    11.4k JesusChrist

    I doubt Jundroo would even consider option 2 to be honest, the games and communities are just way too different for that (with SP being sort of a flight-sim-sandbox and SR2 being a more serious space exploration game).

    Considering they released SPVR a while ago, maybe that was to keep everyone here occupied while they finish up SR2, before working on this game (or a sequel).

    My guess is that they'll probably go with one of these options:

    a) Finish up SR2, then start work on SP2 (although I don't know if there's enough left to add for a new game)
    b) Finish up SR2, then make a large paid update (DLC) for this game
    c) Dropping support for this game entirely to focus on SR2 (unlikely, but still probably less so than merging both games)

    Although I'm not sure how well a DLC would sell though considering mods can already alter the game to add new stuff, a mobile exclusive DLC would also probably not sell very much and only annoy everyone who doesn't own the PC version.

    1.6 years ago
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    47.8k Phantomium

    Off-topic but: just 14 years old? I was expecting them to be male but... 14 years old... if you ask me, it's both a blessing and a curse. Idk where'd you got that number from, but I seriously hope it's higher than that.

    I've been playing this game for the past 3 years, ever since March 2016. What brought me here were Weazel's videos which showed very interesting designs and, eventually, I decided to hop in on the plane train and, let me tell you, I haven't been disappointed with my purchase. I regret not buying it from the get-go (I started playing on a cracked version, simply because my parents wouldn't allow me to buy anything on the Internet).

    What made me stay here was the similarity with Minecraft. Whereas Minecraft allowed me to unleash my inner creativity, so did Simpleplanes, but in a different manner.

    I personally rarely read SR2 posts. I find the game rather boring and nowhere near as complex and customizable as SP. I may be completely wrong here, but SR2 just doesn't have that same vibe as SP.

    Simpleplanes has almost always allowed me to put my concepts into practice. Whether it be some fancy jet or some of the most advanced tanks ever made, I've always had the means and the creational liberty to do literally anything. I think the Sandbox's motto The sky is the limit fits the game perfectly; kudos to whoever came up with that.

    However, if the developers decide to take the game a different direction a la Paradox (which places important game features behind massive DLC paywalls) or, even worse, a la EA (do I need say more? You know this one too well...), I'm not sure it will benefit them in the long run.

    I understand SR2 is still in early access, and I can also see why Jundroo is "forcing it down our throats": the more players you have, the more suggestions will be made. The more suggestions you have, the more likely the number of good suggestions will increase. It's something rooted well within Jundroo which, in part, because they are a small studio, listen to the community as closely as they can.

    I would be deeply disappointed (much like you and everyone else) if they left SP for SR2. Deeply disappointed. While one lost customer doesn't mean much in the greater numbers game, hundreds or, who knows, even thousands mean a lot.

    I could go on but, overall, Jundroo doesn't yet afford leaving SP in the dust. It would deal a massive blow both to their overall image and revenue, two of the most important things a company has to take great care of in my opinion.

    +5 4.7 years ago
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    319 bmcclory

    I don’t really agree with you on that. Sure they’re posting update posts on here, but the same thing happened with SR1 on reddit. Everyone was fine with it, and most were excited. I think to say they’re forcing it down your throats is a bit extreme. And the landing gear wasn’t a marketing ploy to get you to buy the game, it was a feature suggested by the SR community and added in because of it. I’m guessing it has something to do with the community around Simple Planes, which must be different from the SR community. @Brields95

    4.7 years ago
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    15.7k Defective47

    Combine the two to get
    SP+SR2=SimpleAviation
    But I am with Blackhatt. I don't like the SR2 Page and honestly, it lacks the whole family part and for me, it seems to have a very erie, friendly but not so friendly vibe. I also would hate to lose all of the work I have done so far. It would set my anger levels past Mars to see my truck stuff removed

    4.7 years ago
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    I agree with the first as well. I bought SR2 mostly to support Jundroo, but the Simpleplanes community is like a second family to me, and I just don’t feel the same at the SR2 website.

    +2 4.7 years ago
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    @Bmcclory well the big problem is the developers are trying to force sr2 down our throats without fixing what we don't like first.

    4.7 years ago
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    319 bmcclory

    I don’t find the mirroring system to be a problem, as I’m more used to the system SR has rather than SP, although I see what you mean with the different views. @jamesPLANESii

    +2 4.7 years ago
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    The mirroring system is infuriating for small details. Doing details takes a lot of mirroring things while they aren’t attached to the plane, and taking parts off other parts without breaking their mirror. Being able to mirror on the fly is really important with doing small details, and this feature isn’t available on SR2. Also the 3 view on the website, for some reason, doesn’t have a top view, meaning making accurate replicas and getting proportions right on builds is much more difficult. @Bmcclory

    +2 4.7 years ago
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    319 bmcclory

    There are a lot of plane parts, such as jets, props, and the new landing gear. They fixed the mirror tool as well allowing you to make planes. @Mmdben

    +1 4.7 years ago
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    3,804 Mmdben

    @Bmcclory "it’s just that it’s made for rockets rather than planes" and that's what is frustrating them ,the Devs are adding planes parts to SR2 , but SR2 needs plane parts to make SSTOs, and the Whole SP community is being jealous right know.

    +1 4.7 years ago
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    319 bmcclory

    Hello, I’m cane here from the SR forums after the posts made by the SP community. I find the building system, although a bit more complicated, to be way more advanced because of the new features it adds compared to the one in SP. what do you guys find frustrating about it? I find both to be similar. I personally would be fine with the first option, as it is basically what they are doing currently. The second option might infuriate the SR community as they have built up points through hard work, and innovations using the new features just to be taken away by someone who have been playing a completely different game. Personally, I feel as if the whole argument between the two games comes down to a matter of opinion.
    .
    Edit 1: I read a lot of the frustration came from the mirror tool, which works differently than SP, it’s not that it’s bad, it’s just that it’s made for rockets rather than planes.

    +4 4.7 years ago
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    Well said man. This is exactly how I feel with the situation. I personally find the building style of SR2 incredibly frustrating for what I like to do. It’s oversimplified and doing detail is infuriating. I believe that Jundroo should work on both games separately and enhance them both to make them excel in their own way.

    +5 4.7 years ago
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    8,281 12ocketguy

    I believe we also have to remember that SR2 is still in early access. SR2 has kinks in it's design that need to be worked out. As well, think what SR thought when SP was released. SR2 was not made to replace SP. If SR2 was made to replace SP, we would see more SP feature, which we don't. SR2 is supposed to rival KSP not SP. furthermore, SP most likely won't see SR2 parts or similar parts because then nobody would get SR2. The Devs haven't forgotten about SP, and they won't. SP was their biggest game. They are not going to piss off a majority of their players.

    +2 4.7 years ago
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    16.8k YourWife

    My only complaint with sr2 is the meriad of menus you have to flip through to perform ome single action. It's so user unfriendly that I only have a few hours despite owning it since around its release.

    +4 4.7 years ago
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    53.8k CoolPeach

    I think, as someone who has experience with both games, that the main barrier between them is a.) the differences in the build interface and b.) the differences in realism. I think it has been addressed below that there are differences in the two build systems that make it challenging to transition, but you can get used to that after a while. What for me was the actual barrier was the physics, realising I couldn’t just hide wing pieces where I wanted, dealing with a much better and more realistic physics engine so on. These were the actual barriers for me ironically. You’d think it be amazing, and it is, but it’s a steep learning curve, which combined with a much smaller and less diverse community, doesn’t want to make you to move over.

    4.7 years ago
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    I also think the landing gear update in SR2 was awesome, but I'd also like to see something like that make it's way to SP, and SP's default aircraft engines to receive an overhaul. Make them completely customizable in looks, appearance, performance, and have the sound of the engine change in accordance to how you configured said engine, or what type of engine it is, like the jet engines in SR2.

    4.7 years ago
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    19.0k Axartar

    Oh ok but it still hasn’t got the same functions within xml (has it lol) @JohnnyBoythePilot

    4.7 years ago
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    @Axartar Actually SR2 now has it's own version of Overload, so yes you can XML mod.

    +1 4.7 years ago
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    We've asked and asked for better building mechanics and instead get more and more useless parts. The procedural jet engine is still crap even though it says it's producing alot of thrust. I still hat the wonky building and how EVERY LITTLE THING YOU ADD NEEDS A STRUT. And guess what? You can't mirror them because it's "against the rules" like idgaf freeking mirror and connect! And the flight camera is god awful and still hasn't been fixed. But have another procedural part, something that should be in SIMPLEPLANES as it is. Something that has been asked for and confirmed on uservoice. Added to the wrong game.

    +2 4.7 years ago
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    32.3k CRJ900Pilot

    I agree with you guys @Brields95 @Leehopard @Chancey21 @Axartar

    +3 4.7 years ago
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    69.2k Chancey21

    @AndrewGarrison
    While it may be a bit disappointing, I think you should read this and the comments.

    +8 4.7 years ago
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    19.0k Axartar

    Honestly currently I don't think they compare at all, simple planes is better for fine creations with finnicky parts. I tried on sr2 but the mirroring tools aren't good, furthermore you cant export models and lastly you can't Xml mod, this has become one of my favourite aspects of sp honestly me and impactForce are best friends. In addition sr2 requires a Lotttttt more processing power, my simple planes can handle about 1-1.5k parts MAX, whilst my sr2 can barely handle a basic space ship.

    On the contrary I agree, the games should stay separate I've already payed (only a tiny discount in the bundle at the time) for the full version of the games, as they're both great for their desired aspects, sr2 performs great for space travel whilst sp cant scrape it. Also the plane aspects in sr2 are a LOT harder to use.

    And for a possible money maker, They could start making official mods (dlcs) like underwater has been made and with all the underwater terrain ALREADY MADE by the devs why not add some underwater engines throw in underwater vision and maybe some real underwater weapons. you get the idea. this isn't (relative compared to moving the community to sr2) hard at all, even then the mod creators would likely be happy to help develop parts and locations. And charge small money for some of these and you could help satisfy the community.

    I feel like i stopped making sense about halfway through the post, oh well.

    +5 4.7 years ago
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    I would love for Jundroo to make a procedural parts DLC for sp and I'd happily pay for it. I hate the mechanics of sr2 that mutch.

    You here me @AndrewGarrison

    +2 4.7 years ago
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    83.1k Leehopard

    I agree with you completely, especially the first way. Even if jundroo starts a new profit model that sells DLCs or huge updates like any other game, I'm ready to open my wallet. I played this game over thousands hours and it's still the most favorite and absorbing game. But I just spent only a few dollars for this game.... It's unfair to developers.

    +9 4.7 years ago
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    69.2k Chancey21

    I agree completely. Keep them separate so we buy both

    +15 4.7 years ago
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