@JakeTheDogg Yes. And that's why I think that Awwam will fall too.
This is a pattern that is exhibited in all empires, regardless of the conquerors, the conquered, the technological and military disparity between conqueror and conquered, policy to conquered subjects, etc., although they do affect how long said empires last.
We're still around. After all, you agreed that the western hemisphere is our domain, and the east is yours, right?
And I see you're talking behind my back. Like a filthy little gossiper.
Just wanted extra variety, sir. The way I see it, Awwam is a monopoly, whose word is ultimate, and all who disagree shall be crushed by sheer mass of numbers.
Whatever Awwam wants, they get. And you're in command of the TWO most powerful nations. Our military doesn't even compare to the Lanzarrian's in terms of numbers.
And how am I biased? Just because I say your tanks don't work because they have battleship cannons? Because even Supermini555 agreed that having 400+mm guns on a tank is completely impractical. He has since chosen saner calibers such as 160mm, which is still very big, but within the realm of tanks.
And how about your soldiers determination? Are they not even human? Because last time I checked, people can be scared.
And check your bias too. For all the claim that my Pummeler is a terrible plane, you laud an airplane whose development began because of the success of the Pummeler, and then went ahead and purchased a lot of them. If it wasn't successful, why would he make a plane who at its core, is the exact same thing? Both are slow, well-armored, well-armed, and maneuverable attack planes. Is it because we actually shot at you with it?
Your description of my soldiers is nothing but cowardly fighters. I do not recall disrespecting the bravery of your soldiers. I just point out that as humans, they can be afraid, they can be driven mad through continuous combat, that they can die. Sure, they do have high morale and are willing do die for God, but how long can they keep this up in the face of severe hardship?
The only reason why Awwam is so big is because it starts with the letter "A". Which means it gets put to the top of the list. Which means it attracts all the new users, because that's literally the first thing they see.
But to his frustration, he couldn't. Because our navy was like wolves locked in a pen of sheep. Except our navy was the wolves, and his merchant fleet were the sheep.
@TemDesBur I'd rather be the Sherman crew. Because the question of "Will my tank break down? If so, will I enter the fight as infantrymen?" is not something I'd want to consider.
After all, a Sherman tank provides more physical protection than any steel helmet can dream of.
Anyways, the reason why the Americans left their 76mm-armed Shermans back in England on D-Day was because none of the battalion commanders wanted them. Why? Because they were doing just fine with their 75mm guns, and that the 75mm M3 in Italy was able to knock out Panthers and Ferdinand tank destroyers in combat situations without problems. Why go through the process of adopting a new weapon when something you already have seems to work perfectly fine?
The US Army found that what matters most in a tank battle was who got to shoot first.
In Arracourt, the German force of vastly superior number, with about half of it comprising of Panthers, was slaughtered by the Shermans (who mind you, were armed with the 75mm M3) simply because they can decide if, when, and where to attack. Because of this, the Germans lost about 100 tanks, many of them Panthers, while the Americans lost 25 Shermans and 7 SPG, most likely M18 Hellcat TDs. Most of the tank kills were done by the Shermans.
Looking at the design of the Panther will show its many limitations over the Sherman. It could not fire quickly due to the confines of the turret and large projectile, it could not traverse its turret quickly, the gunner only had a narrow-vision gunsight, and crew ergonomics was poor. This limited the Panther crew's ability to rapidly engage multiple targets at relatively close ranges.
The Americans put a greater emphasis on crew comfort, which was why the Sherman, although being technically inferior, was able to compete with the Panther. Many crews liked the Sherman, simply because it was safer to be in a Sherman tank than to be outside of one. Infantry suffered an 18.5% casualty rate, while tankers suffered a 3% rate, and even then, 33-50% of casualties occurred outside the tank. @TemDesBur
@JakeTheDogg Given the size and geographic scale of Awwam, as well as the speed of modern communication technology, Awwam is a true outlier in empires.
Longer-lasting empires such as Roman, British, Ottoman, and Mongol empires, were formed during an era where communications were slower.
It took hundreds of years for the Mongol and Roman empires to wither away. It took the British and Ottomans only 50-100 years for the same to happen.
And history always tells us that nationalism has a way of sneaking back in. People prefer to be ruled by their own, regardless of practical benefits.
And anyways, if history is correct, then Awwam should be crumbling from the immense sacrifices it made when fighting us, resulting in many independence movements rising up.
Nothing shakes up the balance of world power like a collapsing empire! @JakeTheDogg
For one, repairing the Sherman in the field is not a hassle. Also, the Sherman is liable to actually run. Third, the real determinant of who won a tank duel was who was Han Solo and shot first.
Provided the first-shot advantage and therefore the ability to choose where to fight, pre-war anti-tank guns with high-velocity ammunition can knock out a Panther. Even a 14.5mm PTRD Soviet anti-tank rifle, firing at the side at short ranges between the tracks and the sponson, could penetrate the sides. The solution for the latter was the addition of 5mm side skirts that covered this area. With the sponson armor presented at a slight slope and the remainder not covered by the side skirts covered by the interlocked roadwheels, it worked well.
With this in mind, the Sherman was armed with a 75mm medium-velocity gun that could penetrate the side armor at combat ranges. Also, Shermans were used by the Allied armies, and were usually attacking. This meant that the Panther would already have the first shot advantage most of the time.
@Mudkip I suppose we could artifically extend the length of battle and increase the effectiveness of our psychological warfare tactics.
The tactics that drove whole Awwami Army regiments mad. Mad with rage. Mad with fear. Mad with sorrow.
By the end of it, although Awwam managed to make significant territorial gains, their army was no longer a cohesive fighting force. A real tragedy. Half a billion soldiers driven insane.
That was our aim. To render the numbers of the Awwami Army impotent through psychological damage. After all, what good is a million soldiers if all of them are exhausted, hungry, scared, impulsive, and maniacal?
@GoldenEagle I agree that the GLA is not a threat, and should be much weaker. They challenged the one army that actually held their ground against the might of Awwam and Arabia. All attacks against the Paternian homeland failed horribly and suffered such heavy casualties that the rivers ran red with Awwami blood.
At first, they tried conventional warfare
Bad idea. It was more a massacre and less a battle. We were better-equipped, better-led, better-armed, and outnumbered them.
Then they tried unconventional warfare.
Worse idea. That's the way the Paternian Army fought for most of GWW2. And did reasonably well. We're masters of unconventional warfare.
And the best counter-guerrilla fighters are guerrilla fighters. Again, they were mostly destroyed in combat.
The only reason why they still exist is because Arabia feeds them men and money to still exist, and our cannon makes a meal of them.
I have a story idea for it: a huge political coup staged by the Army. A civil war breaks out as independence movements from the various territories grow ever stronger.
In Britain, Imperial England rises alongside the Free Irish State and the Scottish Kingdom, fighting against each other as much as they fight against the Awwami Army.
In France, the Sixth Republic turns Paris, Toulon, Nice, Marseilles, Verdun, and other cities into a warzone, with barricades proving a formidable obstacle for Awwami Army units.
In China, the Chinese Red Army launches Red Dawn, sweeping over the nation.
In neutral Poland, the Winged Hussars rise to counter the power of the rising influence of the GLA.
Short name: Paternia
Long name: Paternian Republic
Government: Federal Republic
Ideology: Democratic Socialist
Alliance: NRNW, UPNW
World Status: Great Power
Languages: English, French, Spanish, Arabic
Provinces: 10
Capital: New York City, North Eastern United States
Military: 50 million active, 100 million reserve
Population: 600 million
Religoins: Christian (55%), Muslim (35%), other (10%)
Denonym: Paternian
Literacy Rate: 95%
Tech: Advanced-futuristic
GDP: 34 trillion USD
Area: 13 million km^2
Population Density: 58ppl/km^2
Average income: $200,000 USD/yr
@MemeKingIndustriesAndMegaCorporation I wouldn't. But now if I find one of these engines in your creations (I have XML), I will simply be disappointed.
@MemeKingIndustriesAndMegaCorporation Oh. I thought it said otherwise on the C&C forum page.
North Point was destroyed during the Battle of Greenland. After several missile hits and a torpedo strike, the captain, Walter Shima, decided to run the ship aground in order to prevent her from sinking. While no longer seaworthy, her weapons were still operational. Personnel not needed to operate the weapons were sent ashore and fought as infantry.
From there, North Point from then on served as a gun battery and anti-aircraft weapons platform to cover the retreat. When her mission was completed, she was evacuated, all valuable equipment stripped from her, and destroyed by gunfire from her sister ships Honolulu (CA-17) and San Diego (CA-24) in order to prevent the Awwami forces from using her in any capacity. Awwami forces later launched numerous air strikes against the wreck, believing that the Paternians might make a last stand onboard her.
That is what happened to North Point. She was the only ship of her class to have been lost in battle.
Also, those were NFK ships under our command you sunk.
And I should mention how one of these ships, named "Arabia", was sunk decisively by the Paternian Navy cruiser North Point.
Liberator was sailing with a convoy of thirty-two other vessels, and encountered North Point.
Arabia fired first, firing several salvos before North Point was able to get closer. When she got closer, the North Point engaged the Arabia. There, the North Point was able to use her superior accuracy and firepower to decimate the Arabia. Although the North Point did not have any AP shells or HEAT-DM shells, it was able to shred the superstructure with HE-DM and HE-I shells.
These caused large-scale fires aboard the warship, but the Arabia continued to put up a fight. Only when the fires reach the ammunition magazine did she stop fighting.
@MemeKingIndustriesAndMegaCorporation Then again, you ARE the Excellent ARABIAN Caliphate and Awwam. You rule Arabia, Indonesia, Persia, and Canada, all large oil-producing countries. I'm sure you have lots of oil in the ground.
Really? The were standard issue after we first encountered them.
We learned that other ammunition is useless against it, and that APLJ is effective, since every fifth shot of a standard M24 machine gun was APLJ. @MemeKingIndustriesAndMegaCorporation
@MemeKingIndustriesAndMegaCorporation Sure...
The crew of the Destoryers Daring and Boldness would like to disagree.
@MemeKingIndustriesAndMegaCorporation And how can your said disease be activated by a push of a button on your side?
Seriously, that's not even remotely possible today on any scale.
@JakeTheDogg Yes. And that's why I think that Awwam will fall too.
This is a pattern that is exhibited in all empires, regardless of the conquerors, the conquered, the technological and military disparity between conqueror and conquered, policy to conquered subjects, etc., although they do affect how long said empires last.
@MemeKingIndustriesAndMegaCorporation Ehh...
We're still around. After all, you agreed that the western hemisphere is our domain, and the east is yours, right?
And I see you're talking behind my back. Like a filthy little gossiper.
Just wanted extra variety, sir. The way I see it, Awwam is a monopoly, whose word is ultimate, and all who disagree shall be crushed by sheer mass of numbers.
Whatever Awwam wants, they get. And you're in command of the TWO most powerful nations. Our military doesn't even compare to the Lanzarrian's in terms of numbers.
And how am I biased? Just because I say your tanks don't work because they have battleship cannons? Because even Supermini555 agreed that having 400+mm guns on a tank is completely impractical. He has since chosen saner calibers such as 160mm, which is still very big, but within the realm of tanks.
And how about your soldiers determination? Are they not even human? Because last time I checked, people can be scared.
And check your bias too. For all the claim that my Pummeler is a terrible plane, you laud an airplane whose development began because of the success of the Pummeler, and then went ahead and purchased a lot of them. If it wasn't successful, why would he make a plane who at its core, is the exact same thing? Both are slow, well-armored, well-armed, and maneuverable attack planes. Is it because we actually shot at you with it?
Your description of my soldiers is nothing but cowardly fighters. I do not recall disrespecting the bravery of your soldiers. I just point out that as humans, they can be afraid, they can be driven mad through continuous combat, that they can die. Sure, they do have high morale and are willing do die for God, but how long can they keep this up in the face of severe hardship?
The only reason why Awwam is so big is because it starts with the letter "A". Which means it gets put to the top of the list. Which means it attracts all the new users, because that's literally the first thing they see.
@MikuKat Probably. He tried with ours.
But to his frustration, he couldn't. Because our navy was like wolves locked in a pen of sheep. Except our navy was the wolves, and his merchant fleet were the sheep.
@GoldenEagle
@MemeKingIndustriesAndMegaCorporation Well, they had a go at it.
Here's a couple reasons why they didn't.
1) Vienna
2)Lepanto
@dog65 It is, but I decided not to add them because I'm not good enough to make them.
That really fancy radar you see is EternalDarkness.
@MemeKingIndustriesAndMegaCorporation I'd rather you not, due to the strategic implications of doing so.
@dog65 Go ahead! Just be sure to credit me!
@TemDesBur I'd rather be the Sherman crew. Because the question of "Will my tank break down? If so, will I enter the fight as infantrymen?" is not something I'd want to consider.
After all, a Sherman tank provides more physical protection than any steel helmet can dream of.
Anyways, the reason why the Americans left their 76mm-armed Shermans back in England on D-Day was because none of the battalion commanders wanted them. Why? Because they were doing just fine with their 75mm guns, and that the 75mm M3 in Italy was able to knock out Panthers and Ferdinand tank destroyers in combat situations without problems. Why go through the process of adopting a new weapon when something you already have seems to work perfectly fine?
@LeHoneyBadger lol
@MikuKat Now its probably Awwam, then us.
Even though we were small and lost lots, we have rendered the Awwami and Arabian military forces a blunt sword.
The US Army found that what matters most in a tank battle was who got to shoot first.
In Arracourt, the German force of vastly superior number, with about half of it comprising of Panthers, was slaughtered by the Shermans (who mind you, were armed with the 75mm M3) simply because they can decide if, when, and where to attack. Because of this, the Germans lost about 100 tanks, many of them Panthers, while the Americans lost 25 Shermans and 7 SPG, most likely M18 Hellcat TDs. Most of the tank kills were done by the Shermans.
Looking at the design of the Panther will show its many limitations over the Sherman. It could not fire quickly due to the confines of the turret and large projectile, it could not traverse its turret quickly, the gunner only had a narrow-vision gunsight, and crew ergonomics was poor. This limited the Panther crew's ability to rapidly engage multiple targets at relatively close ranges.
The Americans put a greater emphasis on crew comfort, which was why the Sherman, although being technically inferior, was able to compete with the Panther. Many crews liked the Sherman, simply because it was safer to be in a Sherman tank than to be outside of one. Infantry suffered an 18.5% casualty rate, while tankers suffered a 3% rate, and even then, 33-50% of casualties occurred outside the tank. @TemDesBur
@JakeTheDogg Given the size and geographic scale of Awwam, as well as the speed of modern communication technology, Awwam is a true outlier in empires.
Longer-lasting empires such as Roman, British, Ottoman, and Mongol empires, were formed during an era where communications were slower.
It took hundreds of years for the Mongol and Roman empires to wither away. It took the British and Ottomans only 50-100 years for the same to happen.
And history always tells us that nationalism has a way of sneaking back in. People prefer to be ruled by their own, regardless of practical benefits.
@JakeTheDogg It's a proposal, sir.
I'm a history major. Which means I read history books because I love it.
And I have noticed two trends; the bigger the empire, the faster it will crumble, and that the faster ideas move, the shorter an empire lasts.
But explosions are cool...
And anyways, if history is correct, then Awwam should be crumbling from the immense sacrifices it made when fighting us, resulting in many independence movements rising up.
Nothing shakes up the balance of world power like a collapsing empire! @JakeTheDogg
Nice going! @1gman4evr
Actually, that's called good business. After all, Muhammad was a merchant by trade. @MemeKingIndustriesAndMegaCorporation
@SimpleTechAndResearch Nippon steel is mightiest.
@MemeKingIndustriesAndMegaCorporation Also, isn't the punishment for stealing, according to Sharia law, the loss of your hands?
Imma go get the hacksaw and morphine just in case you do.
I also think the Sherman was a better tank.
For one, repairing the Sherman in the field is not a hassle. Also, the Sherman is liable to actually run. Third, the real determinant of who won a tank duel was who was Han Solo and shot first.
Provided the first-shot advantage and therefore the ability to choose where to fight, pre-war anti-tank guns with high-velocity ammunition can knock out a Panther. Even a 14.5mm PTRD Soviet anti-tank rifle, firing at the side at short ranges between the tracks and the sponson, could penetrate the sides. The solution for the latter was the addition of 5mm side skirts that covered this area. With the sponson armor presented at a slight slope and the remainder not covered by the side skirts covered by the interlocked roadwheels, it worked well.
With this in mind, the Sherman was armed with a 75mm medium-velocity gun that could penetrate the side armor at combat ranges. Also, Shermans were used by the Allied armies, and were usually attacking. This meant that the Panther would already have the first shot advantage most of the time.
Wargaming logic: Hmm... only 20 vehicles were fitted with the new turret?
Let's give ALL Panthers this turret!
@Mudkip Yes indeed.
insert Soviet National Anthem
Permission to make my own version?
Also tested this. It is slower and less maneuverable than our F-9C. @MemeKingIndustriesAndMegaCorporation
@Mudkip There is no king but God Himself.
@Mudkip It did.
@Mudkip I suppose we could artifically extend the length of battle and increase the effectiveness of our psychological warfare tactics.
The tactics that drove whole Awwami Army regiments mad. Mad with rage. Mad with fear. Mad with sorrow.
By the end of it, although Awwam managed to make significant territorial gains, their army was no longer a cohesive fighting force. A real tragedy. Half a billion soldiers driven insane.
That was our aim. To render the numbers of the Awwami Army impotent through psychological damage. After all, what good is a million soldiers if all of them are exhausted, hungry, scared, impulsive, and maniacal?
@GoldenEagle I agree that the GLA is not a threat, and should be much weaker. They challenged the one army that actually held their ground against the might of Awwam and Arabia. All attacks against the Paternian homeland failed horribly and suffered such heavy casualties that the rivers ran red with Awwami blood.
At first, they tried conventional warfare
Bad idea. It was more a massacre and less a battle. We were better-equipped, better-led, better-armed, and outnumbered them.
Then they tried unconventional warfare.
Worse idea. That's the way the Paternian Army fought for most of GWW2. And did reasonably well. We're masters of unconventional warfare.
And the best counter-guerrilla fighters are guerrilla fighters. Again, they were mostly destroyed in combat.
The only reason why they still exist is because Arabia feeds them men and money to still exist, and our cannon makes a meal of them.
@GoldenEagle I think Awwam is too powerful.
I have a story idea for it: a huge political coup staged by the Army. A civil war breaks out as independence movements from the various territories grow ever stronger.
In Britain, Imperial England rises alongside the Free Irish State and the Scottish Kingdom, fighting against each other as much as they fight against the Awwami Army.
In France, the Sixth Republic turns Paris, Toulon, Nice, Marseilles, Verdun, and other cities into a warzone, with barricades proving a formidable obstacle for Awwami Army units.
In China, the Chinese Red Army launches Red Dawn, sweeping over the nation.
In neutral Poland, the Winged Hussars rise to counter the power of the rising influence of the GLA.
Basically, the collapse of Awwam.
@Mudkip Oh. The RP site, if I remember correctly, stated it began on 2089.
And a war of that length will probably have worn out the Awwami and Arabian forces.
@MemeKingIndustriesAndMegaCorporation Remember, the bigger the empire, the bigger the collapse and regional insecurity.
@GoldenEagle Here's the PR's stats.
Short name: Paternia
Long name: Paternian Republic
Government: Federal Republic
Ideology: Democratic Socialist
Alliance: NRNW, UPNW
World Status: Great Power
Languages: English, French, Spanish, Arabic
Provinces: 10
Capital: New York City, North Eastern United States
Military: 50 million active, 100 million reserve
Population: 600 million
Religoins: Christian (55%), Muslim (35%), other (10%)
Denonym: Paternian
Literacy Rate: 95%
Tech: Advanced-futuristic
GDP: 34 trillion USD
Area: 13 million km^2
Population Density: 58ppl/km^2
Average income: $200,000 USD/yr
@MemeKingIndustriesAndMegaCorporation Maybe Mudkip or a significant other of his/her (parent, relative, sibling, friend, etc.,) with cancer?
Or he's changing his ways.
@MemeKingIndustriesAndMegaCorporation I wouldn't. But now if I find one of these engines in your creations (I have XML), I will simply be disappointed.
@MemeKingIndustriesAndMegaCorporation But this makes the infinite fuel tank very much finite.
@MemeKingIndustriesAndMegaCorporation Oh. I thought it said otherwise on the C&C forum page.
North Point was destroyed during the Battle of Greenland. After several missile hits and a torpedo strike, the captain, Walter Shima, decided to run the ship aground in order to prevent her from sinking. While no longer seaworthy, her weapons were still operational. Personnel not needed to operate the weapons were sent ashore and fought as infantry.
From there, North Point from then on served as a gun battery and anti-aircraft weapons platform to cover the retreat. When her mission was completed, she was evacuated, all valuable equipment stripped from her, and destroyed by gunfire from her sister ships Honolulu (CA-17) and San Diego (CA-24) in order to prevent the Awwami forces from using her in any capacity. Awwami forces later launched numerous air strikes against the wreck, believing that the Paternians might make a last stand onboard her.
That is what happened to North Point. She was the only ship of her class to have been lost in battle.
@MemeKingIndustriesAndMegaCorporation I must agree.
Great to see the various emirates and kingdoms managed to settle energy security before they merged!
Btw we use agal ethanol. @MemeKingIndustriesAndMegaCorporation
@Ahtzee But with these, you can have quieter, faster-accelerating jets.
And I know jets that can make an "unlimited" fuel tank a very much limited fuel tank.
Bruh, the war started in 2089.
Also, those were NFK ships under our command you sunk.
And I should mention how one of these ships, named "Arabia", was sunk decisively by the Paternian Navy cruiser North Point.
Liberator was sailing with a convoy of thirty-two other vessels, and encountered North Point.
Arabia fired first, firing several salvos before North Point was able to get closer. When she got closer, the North Point engaged the Arabia. There, the North Point was able to use her superior accuracy and firepower to decimate the Arabia. Although the North Point did not have any AP shells or HEAT-DM shells, it was able to shred the superstructure with HE-DM and HE-I shells.
These caused large-scale fires aboard the warship, but the Arabia continued to put up a fight. Only when the fires reach the ammunition magazine did she stop fighting.
@Fluffysheep Talking about shipbuilders.
@MemeKingIndustriesAndMegaCorporation Well that explains why psychological warfare operations were less effective this time around.
@CaesiciusPlanes Nudge. And basing my guns off real guns.
My K-10 Sniper Rifle (now classified as M10) is based off the Mauser K98 rifle, with some Mosin-Nagant features.
My new M12 is based off of the FN FAL.
My venerable K-18 (now M18) series was based off the SiG 550 family.
My M36 series is based off the AR-15 series.
The M28 and M38 anti-material take inspiration mostly from the Panzerbuchse 39 anti-tank rifle.
The M24 (listed probably as K-24) was based off the FN MAG and MG42.
The M26 (listed probably as K-26) was based off the M2 Browning.
@MemeKingIndustriesAndMegaCorporation You can.
Just, credit me. And I'll be happy.
Or not. And I won't be mad. Just, bitterly disappointed.
You could say you reverse-engineered them from Paternian Air Force jets though.
@MemeKingIndustriesAndMegaCorporation Then again, you ARE the Excellent ARABIAN Caliphate and Awwam. You rule Arabia, Indonesia, Persia, and Canada, all large oil-producing countries. I'm sure you have lots of oil in the ground.
Dat fuel consumption though...
I mean, it went through the "infinite" fuel tank faster than Steam Sales go through your wallet.
Really? The were standard issue after we first encountered them.
We learned that other ammunition is useless against it, and that APLJ is effective, since every fifth shot of a standard M24 machine gun was APLJ. @MemeKingIndustriesAndMegaCorporation