High AoA : checked
For research purpose : checked
Is a vehicle : checked
Work fine by me.
I also have some suggestions for this plane, here goes:
- I agreed with Zainman for the pitching and controllability, that happened because the plane have somewhat negative stability (just ignore the CoM and CoL, it's just a rough representation) and when aoa is high enough the plane will want to fly backward on it's own, there are many ways to fix this, increase nose weight, move CoL rearward, increasing speed and range of motion of horizontal stabilizers, increasing drag scale for horizontal stabilizers or a combination of all I've said. I assume you've somewhat fixed it but it still present at high speed.
- Lucky you can understand the code, rudders are almost useless in correcting unwanted yaw because the sensitivity is too low, YawRate/150 is too low, I've tried YawRate/40 and the difference is night and day.
- You can also play with angle of slip if you brave enough lol, it's just aoa but sideway.
- The main limiting factor of flying backward is rudders itself, when speed s high enough the rudder will try to flip the plane to face the airstream regardless of the FT code, it's just nature of having rudders. (Just imagine throwing a dart backward, it can fly backward up to a certain speed until it flip to face the air stream)
@Zaineman
That's one way to do PSM after all lol.
I'd say speed is key in PSM, speed too high and no PSM for you.
I'll just breakdown what you've done because I think it'll get you more into the PSM coolness.
In yaw axis, there are 2 rudder working against PSM, their job is to keep the plane pointing into the air stream even when the rudders sit still.
That's why you can't yaw further like the plane is stuck, engine power can't overcome rudder power so it can't yaw anymore.
And at 0:08 and 0:23, the plane can studently spin because the combination of speed loss and momentum of spinning the other way and they overcome the rudders stability.
Guess that's what happened in your head lol.
@Zaineman
Yes you can do whatever you want with it.
I suggest you make cockpit for it, I've never see one before lol. (and the mods might look at you with red eyes)
First make the fuselage at the nose hollow and place cockpit in there and I guess you know the rest.
Also, you don't need full throttle for PSM, it seems counterintuitive but this plane have quite high thrust per weight ratio (spicy engines) so it'll gain speed quickly and escape stall which is not ideal since we want it to stay stall. (as the name suggest, post-stall maneuver)
@SpyFlyingPlanes
I guess it's ok if what you've done is not just cheap 2 clicks repaint, I'll let the community decide since I'm ok with anyone modifying it.
@Zaineman
It turned so hard the canopy sink into the cockpit lol.
On the lower right corner of the HUD, there are some useful information.
This is what I've got on full speed sustain turn.
G 47.6
α 7.0
M 1.16
Yeah, 47.6G, that's more than sun's gravity!
Joke aside, I noticed this plane have tvc and I have to say it can do post stall maneuver but with some difficulties.
@SpyFlyingPlanes
I wouldn't trust Quora for my research since the answer can come from anyone unless that person provided some solid evidence to their claim.
Roll tvc is entirely possible, I've implemented it in my plane but not active all the time to give player choices to stay true to the Raptor.
How I come to this conclusion?
I just follow tvc I saw in many Raptor airshow, those nozzle always more together for pitch movement but never opposite to provide roll, not even when on the ground when they testing tvc before taxi.
@CharlieLol
I guess you just made it compatible with low physic since those shaking issues you've described earlier can be worst in low physic.
But idk if it'll affect other physic setting and/or flight characteristics.
@Erc90F4RU
The plane look nice.
By the look of it, I just can't tell if it'll psm or not lol.
The plane has canards that way too small to be effective in my opinion which may or may not be a problem for us builder lol.
@SkyJayTheFirst
Yes, for now.
Not until you know how exactly aoa work both irl and in SP and how rudders can control pitch.
You know... just to not over-complicate things.
@SkyJayTheFirst
Angle of slip in the code (in this version) is just use to determine whether the plane go forward or backward, it didn't contribute to any stability.
You'll need more code that involve angle of slip to really make it work as stabilization.
I think you should learn more about what angle of slip and angle of attack do, and the problem will sort itself out.
I want this to be your Eureka moment lol.
Hint:
Cobra is high angle of attack.
Angle of attack is not in yaw axis.
@SkyJayTheFirst
That's what I really mean in the first comment.
So I think you got some terminology mixed up.
therefore I wanted it to spin smoothly, yaw-wise.
So I think what is the closest to your description is flat-spin.
And you also want the plane to side slip freely by pointing rudders into the wind so it'll provide minimal yaw stability.
The thing is angle of attack has nothing to do with this, what you need is angle of slip which is angle of attack but for yaw.
I think it's flight control is pretty much on point now.
And I've noticed the rudder react to aoa which will force the plane to yaw to the right when doing cobra or other high aoa maneuver.
One question is what you intended to do with aoa code in rudders?
Nice PSM aircraft!
I suggest you to disable collision of more parts around the engine because I noticed that part of tvc keep colliding to the fuselage while yaw command is apply.
It may or may not damage itself and explode.
idk.
@SkyJayTheFirst
Thanks for showing me this plane, it do PSM well, I guess CaptainFranchfries is you in the past lol.
@CaptainFranchfries
I think this plane fly really well, using high thrust to overcome the plane innate stability to do PSM is a nice way to start but it can comeback to bite you in some rare circumstance.
And I think you tuned the plane really well to get to this point.
I also flew the Better Maneuverability Version too, it fly better and smoother.
Good job.
@CharlieLol
The entire plane shake because of wing flutter so those control surfaces try to stabilize the plane.
If you ever been in a plane flying through turbulence, you'll see control surfaces shaking just like this.
Glad you are back.
+1High AoA : checked
+2For research purpose : checked
Is a vehicle : checked
Work fine by me.
I also have some suggestions for this plane, here goes:
- I agreed with Zainman for the pitching and controllability, that happened because the plane have somewhat negative stability (just ignore the CoM and CoL, it's just a rough representation) and when aoa is high enough the plane will want to fly backward on it's own, there are many ways to fix this, increase nose weight, move CoL rearward, increasing speed and range of motion of horizontal stabilizers, increasing drag scale for horizontal stabilizers or a combination of all I've said. I assume you've somewhat fixed it but it still present at high speed.
- Lucky you can understand the code, rudders are almost useless in correcting unwanted yaw because the sensitivity is too low, YawRate/150 is too low, I've tried YawRate/40 and the difference is night and day.
- You can also play with angle of slip if you brave enough lol, it's just aoa but sideway.
- The main limiting factor of flying backward is rudders itself, when speed s high enough the rudder will try to flip the plane to face the airstream regardless of the FT code, it's just nature of having rudders. (Just imagine throwing a dart backward, it can fly backward up to a certain speed until it flip to face the air stream)
@Zaineman
That's one way to do PSM after all lol.
I'd say speed is key in PSM, speed too high and no PSM for you.
I'll just breakdown what you've done because I think it'll get you more into the PSM coolness.
In yaw axis, there are 2 rudder working against PSM, their job is to keep the plane pointing into the air stream even when the rudders sit still.
That's why you can't yaw further like the plane is stuck, engine power can't overcome rudder power so it can't yaw anymore.
And at 0:08 and 0:23, the plane can studently spin because the combination of speed loss and momentum of spinning the other way and they overcome the rudders stability.
Guess that's what happened in your head lol.
@Zaineman
lol
I see you are coming out of going fast stage and starting PSM with full throttle stage.
Well...
Just like me.
@Zaineman
Yes you can do whatever you want with it.
I suggest you make cockpit for it, I've never see one before lol. (and the mods might look at you with red eyes)
First make the fuselage at the nose hollow and place cockpit in there and I guess you know the rest.
Also, you don't need full throttle for PSM, it seems counterintuitive but this plane have quite high thrust per weight ratio (spicy engines) so it'll gain speed quickly and escape stall which is not ideal since we want it to stay stall. (as the name suggest, post-stall maneuver)
@SpyFlyingPlanes
I guess it's ok if what you've done is not just cheap 2 clicks repaint, I'll let the community decide since I'm ok with anyone modifying it.
@weeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
No, for beginner.
Yes if you know what are you doing.
@Dracul0Anderson
idk if it's a good idea since this plane was built with realistic performance in mind so it won't stand a chance to most SP plane.
@OUGHTO
Yes.
If your plane have similar performance, it'll work just fine.
I guess.
@faizyfz
I've been busy with life so there will be a lot of delay.
But I'm still making stuff.
@Cir8
+1Do this
Nice.
+1PSM work well too.
@Zaineman
It turned so hard the canopy sink into the cockpit lol.
On the lower right corner of the HUD, there are some useful information.
This is what I've got on full speed sustain turn.
G 47.6
α 7.0
M 1.16
Yeah, 47.6G, that's more than sun's gravity!
Joke aside, I noticed this plane have tvc and I have to say it can do post stall maneuver but with some difficulties.
@SpyFlyingPlanes
I wouldn't trust Quora for my research since the answer can come from anyone unless that person provided some solid evidence to their claim.
Roll tvc is entirely possible, I've implemented it in my plane but not active all the time to give player choices to stay true to the Raptor.
How I come to this conclusion?
I just follow tvc I saw in many Raptor airshow, those nozzle always more together for pitch movement but never opposite to provide roll, not even when on the ground when they testing tvc before taxi.
@Khanhlam @Zaineman
+1What can I say, this plane really can do PSM, with some difficulties due to no FT code but it does lol.
@faizyfz
There are a lot of changes.
Mainly in weapons and flight control system.
You can read more detail in Mister Blue post.
@SpyFlyingPlanes
Can you give me the source?
I've Googled it a lot but can't find any good answer.
@SpyFlyingPlanes
Miss the shot for cinematic purpose I guess.
@ALRX
Interesting.
@TRD
+1I'll be limiting the part count to 1000.
The HUD is going to change a lot, in the pic is just a placeholder.
It's amazing.
+2We don't see this kind of detailed livery everyday, do we?
I took this, made a plane and travel back in time to post it.
here
@CharlieLol
I guess you just made it compatible with low physic since those shaking issues you've described earlier can be worst in low physic.
But idk if it'll affect other physic setting and/or flight characteristics.
Russian style HUD?
Guess the lore will involve some sort of collaboration from Japanese and Russian.
@Erc90F4RU
The plane look nice.
By the look of it, I just can't tell if it'll psm or not lol.
The plane has canards that way too small to be effective in my opinion which may or may not be a problem for us builder lol.
@Khanhlam
+1There is no magic button, you need to play around with input and/or those speed and range of motion slider.
@lazyEureka
That's not me.
I don't have any Chinese media site account to begin with.
I also can't read Chinese lol.
@OUGHTO
Yes.
@Quichenic
idk
HUD is still at 10%.
Cockpit is not done yet.
@Erc90F4RU
Get problem = good.
Problem = more knowledge = good.
I can help.
But I'm afraid I will not be active all the time.
@Khanhlam
+1Just find the rotator and disable it.
@SkyJayTheFirst
+1Yes, for now.
Not until you know how exactly aoa work both irl and in SP and how rudders can control pitch.
You know... just to not over-complicate things.
@CharlieLol
No.
There is a hinge rotator in each wing that responsible for shaking the wing, go disable it.
@Erc90F4RU
y e s
@SkyJayTheFirst
+1Angle of slip in the code (in this version) is just use to determine whether the plane go forward or backward, it didn't contribute to any stability.
You'll need more code that involve angle of slip to really make it work as stabilization.
I think you should learn more about what angle of slip and angle of attack do, and the problem will sort itself out.
I want this to be your Eureka moment lol.
Hint:
Cobra is high angle of attack.
Angle of attack is not in yaw axis.
Left me speechless in a lot of ways I guess.
+1But hey, at least it fly well.
@SkyJayTheFirst
That's what I really mean in the first comment.
So I think you got some terminology mixed up.
So I think what is the closest to your description is flat-spin.
+1And you also want the plane to side slip freely by pointing rudders into the wind so it'll provide minimal yaw stability.
The thing is angle of attack has nothing to do with this, what you need is angle of slip which is angle of attack but for yaw.
@Lifewald
+2Nice.
I think you've got what it take because of how nice this plane fly.
I think it's flight control is pretty much on point now.
+1And I've noticed the rudder react to aoa which will force the plane to yaw to the right when doing cobra or other high aoa maneuver.
One question is what you intended to do with aoa code in rudders?
This is really cool.
+2And I guess you'll need more code to be able to fly backward for an extended period of time :P
@PLNE
Use this.
@CaptainFranchfries
+2I'm happy to hear that.
@Lifewald
+1Oh really?
I'm so glad to hear that.
@CharlieLol
np!
Yaw feel weird to me.
+1And stall recovery feels a bit "unnatural".
But it fly well anyway.
@SkyJayTheFirst
This is a prefect example of how to use AngleOfAttack to prevent stall.
I think you might like it.
@Khanhlam
+5This might be a little too complicate but I think this build explained a lot about artificial stability.
Hope this answer your questions.
Nice PSM aircraft!
+2I suggest you to disable collision of more parts around the engine because I noticed that part of tvc keep colliding to the fuselage while yaw command is apply.
It may or may not damage itself and explode.
idk.
@SkyJayTheFirst
Thanks for showing me this plane, it do PSM well, I guess CaptainFranchfries is you in the past lol.
@CaptainFranchfries
+3I think this plane fly really well, using high thrust to overcome the plane innate stability to do PSM is a nice way to start but it can comeback to bite you in some rare circumstance.
And I think you tuned the plane really well to get to this point.
I also flew the Better Maneuverability Version too, it fly better and smoother.
Good job.
@CharlieLol
+1The entire plane shake because of wing flutter so those control surfaces try to stabilize the plane.
If you ever been in a plane flying through turbulence, you'll see control surfaces shaking just like this.
@CharlieLol
Just Google "wing flutter" if you want more info.