That is great for simulating the ballast functionality, and it is what I have been implementing into my upcoming Churchill Class submarine alongside the usual control with planes. Thing about submarines irl is that they use both ballast and diving planes to control their depth. I intend for all subs I make from my Churchill onward to reflect that.
Fully submersible, fully maneuverable, splendid visuals, little details such as opening missile doors, Weapons are functional (the guided missiles especially). This is fantastic! Though the Yaw authority is like an Alfa run on pixy dust.
If only the game didn't delete ordinance below 60 feet, someone should remedy that with a mod. But overall, this thing reaches the apex, the pinnacle of what a submarine build can be in SP!
@SledDriver
I've found with proper xml adjustments to the buoyancy sources and gyro the sub can maintain a mostly if not constant depth. That said though, I can see where the rotator noise can get grating. I also can't argue with the speed XD Doesn't matter to me since I tend to make replicas that run at their irl speeds but driving this sub I can see a preference toward being quick.
I'll add that it takes a lot of fiddling with xml numbers to get things just right along with a lot of loading the level to test results. It can also lead to some unexpected results from time to time. I can understand the appeal of using a simpler and easier to make system such as this one or the common piston method.
Another method has been developed for submarines to not only allow them to submerge, but give them full maneuverability underwater! The first submarine to fully have this as far as I know is this one
It's a direct influence on how I make subs, and involves the use of NO pistons, instead using custom control surfaces along with a rotator-and-wing based propulsion system. Overall moving through the water and operating in a manner similar to a plane! There's no sim for ballast control, but planes controls are fully replicated meaning all you've got to do is pitch down to dive as far as you want!
IMO it's the best way to make a submarine function.
1)If I remember correctly a friend of mine mentioned the game as 'something I'd like' so I checked it out and ultimately bought it.
2)I play to make things and see them come to life in function, while exploiting some of SP's mechanics that facilitate precision (i.e. the fuselage parts' visual versatility, editing the XYZ numbers of an object to precisely position it, working with XML modding, etc).
3)Currently, submarine replicas. Though generally even before making subs my goal has been to make things that others don't really tend to make much, which partially influenced what I currently make.
4)Can't really comment on the old community since I got the game around a year ago. But I can say I really like the current community, A diverse and productive group with a lot of unique builds that take advantage of the game's potential. It's a big part of what encourage me to stick with the game even despite my worst times with it.
5)Nothing spectacular, it's a standard username of mine for online accounts based on a persona character I made up in my head years ago.
@AerialFighterSnakes I also wish Apple didn't suck :) Luckily I got plenty of time to test this thing in working without underwater Camera during the beta. It works just fine minus the camera annoyance.
@SledDriver
That is just sad, a wonderful free tool for builds being offered and it gets rejected by stupid 'purists'. People calling this cheating is honestly insulting given the clear effort put into creating a program with results as fantastic as those of your builds.
I may not have mastered using the generator, but comparing it to XML modding they both clearly involve handling numbers and knowing how to use them. XML modding is so widely accepted yet can make the game itself call you a cheater (through achievement) yet when someone makes a client which lets you make a build straight out of blender and people call it cheating. Dunno about the rest of you but it sounds like petty jealousy and/or double standards to me.
Looking at your builds they're clearly visually well designed and not built off taking shortcuts, which to me nullifies only kind of excuse a fool who whines 'cheater!' could even conceive.
If this is less used for its potential and more derided based on petty 'cheating' excuses then perhaps this is too good for the "community". As if simpleplanes is some hardcore game with rules on what makes you good (not like the effort and skill of most builds posted even reflects that mentality). That in mind I would certainly encourage you to develop this thing offsite and see to it having its own game to shine on.
That game could possibly surpass the build capabilities of SP, based on your builds, and hopefully build a community that explores its potential, instead of being panned by jealous whiners.
@Gameboi14 Named after the letter in the Military Alphabet actually ^^ A lot of russian submarines were named using that, the Echo, Zulu, and Foxtrot being examples. Specifically by NATO
@SuperSix I know that, but didn't know if that refered to traditional xml modding as well. So you're out of luck there, making a sub like this requires the kind of editing XML modding offer. Sorry.
@yoshicraze One more thing, install the underwater camera mod if you haven't already. Not the 'underwater mod' specifically the 'Underwater camera mod' It lets the camera go underwater.
@yoshicraze Lemme give you the process! I was inspired specifically by how it was done by willy1111 in this creation https://www.simpleplanes.com/a/n54940/G-2-Simple-Surveillance-submarine-AIP It inspired me to make submarines that can maneuver through the water like a plane (or rather like a real sub).
The propeller used comes from https://www.simpleplanes.com/a/18Bz7P/Screwed-Custom-Screw-Props-OBT-phase It functions underwater but not in the air!
As for how I made it maneuver underwater,
1) I start by putting in 2 fuselage pieces and xml modding their buoyancy to a where its neutral, as close to 'neither sinking nor floating' as possible. Those pieces are colored white so they're easy to find.
2)I then add the control surfaces, set their width (and only width) VERY high, while scaling their width down. Using xml modding to reduce the size of a wing has little to no effect on it's lifting capacity, and it's best to take advantage of that for a submarine. I also add a gyroscrope to help stabilize this thing, and also to add yaw turning since I've yet to be able to get it to work on these with control surfaces alone.
3)I apply Tosico56's engine, and use xml modding to change the size of the 'blades' of the prop in order to boost the engine power. The bigger the blades the greater the power, I also used xml scaling to reduce the size of the blades when necessary (example being here)
4)In the interest of going a little weaverfish for submarines I use xml modding to adjust then nose's drag and try to get the precise top speed of the real deal.
And once that's all done the submarine is finished! Simply throttle up and use the control surfaces to maneuver around. Thinking of posting a detailed guide on building subs, because I'd like to see more people ditch pistons and fuselages in favor of this method!
@TitanIncorporated These aren't 'my' men, they're Bjac0's creation, modified by me. I might come back to these at some point, though I'm not going to upload as often as I use to.
@SledDriver A smooth shape generator? Hmm, well some of the comments here have made me rethink on the idea of wholly leaving building. Might consider making things on occassion, or at least wait and see what the next update brings.
You guys might be right, note that despite the frequent uploads I wasn't rushing any projects. Mostly finished them quickly due to them being most simple creations built on a similar concept. Maaaybe I spent a bit too much time on it though, and got impatient.
@F104Deathtrap Ooooh I know already looking it up that it could be a challenge to get right. I have also noticed there's a lot of interesting designs from the 60s-70s cold war era from Russia.
@mufasa6896 NO WONDER YOU COULDN'T DIVE! XDXDXDXDXD Sorry, but that explains everything, underwater mod basically replaces the water with a slight upward force and makes everything buoyant. I was quite disappointed when I realized that, but now the Underwater Camera mod exists and works perfectly for subs. Glad you found the issue!
@mufasa6896 I'm actually getting some promising results on my pistonless Gotland ;) Along with the XML modded internal fuselages I've used massive wings xml modded down to size for the control surfaces. I'd suggest giving that a try, along with increasing the weight/size of your sub exponentially of course.
@mufasa6896 Strangely enough I haven't had that problem, though that's probably because of how heavy my subs are. Generally in the 100k to 1 million range. I've acutally been working on making my gotland able to 'fly' through the water through giving it internal fuselages xml modded as close to neutral buyancy as possible. There's actually a submarine that I've found seems capable of maneuvering through the water more like a submarine https://www.simpleplanes.com/a/n54940/G-2-Simple-Surveillance-submarine-AIP It funny enough has a rotator engine as well, though I think yours is much better. ^^
I installed the engine of this thing on my Gotland and it works really well! Are you aware of the piston and Fuselage method people use for submerging submarines?
@Khanskaya I believe so, the craziest thing this uses is a rotator based engine and from a short low physics test it seemed to work just fine.
This is quite the nimble and fun little thing to take to sea. And the way the control surfaces work is quite genius! Fantastic first post!
@Creativit Aaaah I see, gotcha.
@Creativit Oh? I'll check your sub out then. No XML modding aye? Sounds like you made some clever use of the VTOL engine.
@Creativit
That is great for simulating the ballast functionality, and it is what I have been implementing into my upcoming Churchill Class submarine alongside the usual control with planes. Thing about submarines irl is that they use both ballast and diving planes to control their depth. I intend for all subs I make from my Churchill onward to reflect that.
@Scharnhorst Can do!
+1Fully submersible, fully maneuverable, splendid visuals, little details such as opening missile doors, Weapons are functional (the guided missiles especially). This is fantastic! Though the Yaw authority is like an Alfa run on pixy dust.
If only the game didn't delete ordinance below 60 feet, someone should remedy that with a mod. But overall, this thing reaches the apex, the pinnacle of what a submarine build can be in SP!
+1@SledDriver
I've found with proper xml adjustments to the buoyancy sources and gyro the sub can maintain a mostly if not constant depth. That said though, I can see where the rotator noise can get grating. I also can't argue with the speed XD Doesn't matter to me since I tend to make replicas that run at their irl speeds but driving this sub I can see a preference toward being quick.
I'll add that it takes a lot of fiddling with xml numbers to get things just right along with a lot of loading the level to test results. It can also lead to some unexpected results from time to time. I can understand the appeal of using a simpler and easier to make system such as this one or the common piston method.
+1Another method has been developed for submarines to not only allow them to submerge, but give them full maneuverability underwater! The first submarine to fully have this as far as I know is this one
It's a direct influence on how I make subs, and involves the use of NO pistons, instead using custom control surfaces along with a rotator-and-wing based propulsion system. Overall moving through the water and operating in a manner similar to a plane! There's no sim for ballast control, but planes controls are fully replicated meaning all you've got to do is pitch down to dive as far as you want!
IMO it's the best way to make a submarine function.
+21)If I remember correctly a friend of mine mentioned the game as 'something I'd like' so I checked it out and ultimately bought it.
2)I play to make things and see them come to life in function, while exploiting some of SP's mechanics that facilitate precision (i.e. the fuselage parts' visual versatility, editing the XYZ numbers of an object to precisely position it, working with XML modding, etc).
3)Currently, submarine replicas. Though generally even before making subs my goal has been to make things that others don't really tend to make much, which partially influenced what I currently make.
4)Can't really comment on the old community since I got the game around a year ago. But I can say I really like the current community, A diverse and productive group with a lot of unique builds that take advantage of the game's potential. It's a big part of what encourage me to stick with the game even despite my worst times with it.
5)Nothing spectacular, it's a standard username of mine for online accounts based on a persona character I made up in my head years ago.
+1Holy crap a warship under 500 parts!
+2@AerialFighterSnakes I also wish Apple didn't suck :) Luckily I got plenty of time to test this thing in working without underwater Camera during the beta. It works just fine minus the camera annoyance.
@SledDriver
That is just sad, a wonderful free tool for builds being offered and it gets rejected by stupid 'purists'. People calling this cheating is honestly insulting given the clear effort put into creating a program with results as fantastic as those of your builds.
I may not have mastered using the generator, but comparing it to XML modding they both clearly involve handling numbers and knowing how to use them. XML modding is so widely accepted yet can make the game itself call you a cheater (through achievement) yet when someone makes a client which lets you make a build straight out of blender and people call it cheating. Dunno about the rest of you but it sounds like petty jealousy and/or double standards to me.
Looking at your builds they're clearly visually well designed and not built off taking shortcuts, which to me nullifies only kind of excuse a fool who whines 'cheater!' could even conceive.
If this is less used for its potential and more derided based on petty 'cheating' excuses then perhaps this is too good for the "community". As if simpleplanes is some hardcore game with rules on what makes you good (not like the effort and skill of most builds posted even reflects that mentality). That in mind I would certainly encourage you to develop this thing offsite and see to it having its own game to shine on.
That game could possibly surpass the build capabilities of SP, based on your builds, and hopefully build a community that explores its potential, instead of being panned by jealous whiners.
+1A wonderful proof of concept! And a wonderful use of 1.8 parts. Now I'm hoping to see someone make a Zubr-Class!
+3@GeneralOliverVonBismarck I'll consider that idea, since I do have the means (overload) to make a detacher do that. Thanks!
This looks like something Doug Demuro would review on his channel, interesting design for sure!
+1@vmf144 Do you have any mods? If you've got Gestour's underwater mod that's the only thing I could think of that could cause your issue.
@vmf144 It's something on your end because I have experienced no issues of the sort, sorry.
@vmf144 Did you spawn it on water? Got any mods? Physics settings?
@Gameboi14 BUT! The letter is obviously named after the alcoholic drink so you are technically indirectly right.
@Gameboi14 Named after the letter in the Military Alphabet actually ^^ A lot of russian submarines were named using that, the Echo, Zulu, and Foxtrot being examples. Specifically by NATO
@Spacedoge12345plane Finally figured it out! Done.
+1@SuperSix I know that, but didn't know if that refered to traditional xml modding as well. So you're out of luck there, making a sub like this requires the kind of editing XML modding offer. Sorry.
@SuperSix Not sure that's possible, unless maybe one can xml mod on ios. Unless you refer to the format of the post.
@yoshicraze One more thing, install the underwater camera mod if you haven't already. Not the 'underwater mod' specifically the 'Underwater camera mod' It lets the camera go underwater.
@yoshicraze Sweet! I'll look out for it then!
@yoshicraze Lemme give you the process! I was inspired specifically by how it was done by willy1111 in this creation https://www.simpleplanes.com/a/n54940/G-2-Simple-Surveillance-submarine-AIP It inspired me to make submarines that can maneuver through the water like a plane (or rather like a real sub).
The propeller used comes from https://www.simpleplanes.com/a/18Bz7P/Screwed-Custom-Screw-Props-OBT-phase It functions underwater but not in the air!
As for how I made it maneuver underwater,
1) I start by putting in 2 fuselage pieces and xml modding their buoyancy to a where its neutral, as close to 'neither sinking nor floating' as possible. Those pieces are colored white so they're easy to find.
2)I then add the control surfaces, set their width (and only width) VERY high, while scaling their width down. Using xml modding to reduce the size of a wing has little to no effect on it's lifting capacity, and it's best to take advantage of that for a submarine. I also add a gyroscrope to help stabilize this thing, and also to add yaw turning since I've yet to be able to get it to work on these with control surfaces alone.
3)I apply Tosico56's engine, and use xml modding to change the size of the 'blades' of the prop in order to boost the engine power. The bigger the blades the greater the power, I also used xml scaling to reduce the size of the blades when necessary (example being here)
4)In the interest of going a little weaverfish for submarines I use xml modding to adjust then nose's drag and try to get the precise top speed of the real deal.
And once that's all done the submarine is finished! Simply throttle up and use the control surfaces to maneuver around. Thinking of posting a detailed guide on building subs, because I'd like to see more people ditch pistons and fuselages in favor of this method!
+1@TitanIncorporated These aren't 'my' men, they're Bjac0's creation, modified by me. I might come back to these at some point, though I'm not going to upload as often as I use to.
Great to see someone else making a fully maneuverable submarine! Let the era of pistons and floats begone!
+1@SledDriver A smooth shape generator? Hmm, well some of the comments here have made me rethink on the idea of wholly leaving building. Might consider making things on occassion, or at least wait and see what the next update brings.
You guys might be right, note that despite the frequent uploads I wasn't rushing any projects. Mostly finished them quickly due to them being most simple creations built on a similar concept. Maaaybe I spent a bit too much time on it though, and got impatient.
+1@F104Deathtrap Ooooh I know already looking it up that it could be a challenge to get right. I have also noticed there's a lot of interesting designs from the 60s-70s cold war era from Russia.
@F104Deathtrap Tempting build, I'll consider it! Holy crap is it strange though, lol.
@robloxweponco Aaaah I see, thanks!
@randomusername Electric engines? Interesting, is that what the rotators are considered to be powered by?
+1@robloxweponco Actually I think I might have found it! https://www.simpleplanes.com/a/18Bz7P/Screwed-Custom-Screw-Props-OBT-phase
@robloxweponco Thinking I might post the engine I use, with full credit to the genius who actually made it.
@mufasa6896 VTOL ballasts would complete the functionality of the sub for sure! I wish you luck on your submarine!
@mufasa6896 NO WONDER YOU COULDN'T DIVE! XDXDXDXDXD Sorry, but that explains everything, underwater mod basically replaces the water with a slight upward force and makes everything buoyant. I was quite disappointed when I realized that, but now the Underwater Camera mod exists and works perfectly for subs. Glad you found the issue!
@mufasa6896 I wonder if it's your physics settings, because I am not having that problem in the slightest.
@mufasa6896 Pitch down with full throttle, note that the pitch is not inverted, so down is down and up is up.
@mufasa6896 https://www.simpleplanes.com/a/m36D5b/Gotland-Class-Submarine-Realistic-Maneuvering
@mufasa6896 I have completed the Gotland! And it's awesome.
@mufasa6896 It is! And is probably the best method of making control surfaces for subs!
@mufasa6896 https://www.simpleplanes.com/a/Jf6NR2/I-Just-discover-this-glitch Nope :)
@mufasa6896 I'm actually getting some promising results on my pistonless Gotland ;) Along with the XML modded internal fuselages I've used massive wings xml modded down to size for the control surfaces. I'd suggest giving that a try, along with increasing the weight/size of your sub exponentially of course.
@mufasa6896 Strangely enough I haven't had that problem, though that's probably because of how heavy my subs are. Generally in the 100k to 1 million range. I've acutally been working on making my gotland able to 'fly' through the water through giving it internal fuselages xml modded as close to neutral buyancy as possible. There's actually a submarine that I've found seems capable of maneuvering through the water more like a submarine https://www.simpleplanes.com/a/n54940/G-2-Simple-Surveillance-submarine-AIP It funny enough has a rotator engine as well, though I think yours is much better. ^^
@mufasa6896 I see your point, that would be awesome! Hopefully that mod will come from Gestour in time.
I installed the engine of this thing on my Gotland and it works really well! Are you aware of the piston and Fuselage method people use for submerging submarines?
@Portalmaster because that's what's lately been what I've been interested in building.
+1