*READ DESCRIPTION! Now it's clearer, hopefully.
And it's actually important.
This is "Target T3 Light Cruiser HMS Sydney" by Farewellntchii (tsuchiisan) modified as a testbed/demonstrator for buoyancy based damage model. Inspired by old block ship games like Battleship craft, Navalcraft, etc. as well as, well, how ships sink in real life.
What's the point of this system?
Well glad you asked!
With this system...
-Ship can actually sink
-Hull/superstructure don't get "deleted" when hit (thanks to the disabled collision & the way they're connected)
Use this to test the ship: Test guns 1 (link)
Basic Idea - how this works
Parts description
Parts connection
How you connect parts is very important in general, but especially so for this damage model, as it affects how the parts get destroyed and disconnected.
Here's a quick refresher on the basics.
Important stuff
--partCollisionResponse of all parts should be "None" (unless you want the to explode in chain reaction--needs further testing)
--If you wanna edit this ship without going crazy, first use Finetuner to rescale it. Make sure to check "relative scale" and uncheck everytying else. I recommend .25x (1/4) scale, and rescale it back up by 4x when you're done. It took me a while to figure out you could rescale like this.
--DO NOT connect different type of parts (example: green and yellow, blue and exterior, etc.). Unless you want them to explode in chain reaction. Needs further testing.
--Connect each individual section of each type of parts to the primary cockpit, INDIVIDUALLY. This is paramount in keeping the ship together.
Comversely, if you want multiple parts to explode when you hit a certain part, use that part as the "root"--i.e. connect other parts you wanna explode with it to the "root" and connect the "root" to the main (primary) cockpit.
--Cannon type must be "basic" (ie non exploding one) for this to work. Missiles/bombs/rockets can easily destroy blow up the whole ship (can survive if the explosionScale is really low--try hitting the armor belt with torp with ES of 0.1)
--If you want your ship's bow//stern to tilt up after taking damage in the bow and stern, make them (bow/stern) light, and focus your mass in the mid section of the ship. But do distribute buoyancy nicely.
Guns & HP
Test guns 1 (link)
(Includes experimental 5 inch gun, 6 inch, 8, 12, 14, and 16 inch guns)
I'm hoping that we come up with somewhat realistic gun damage/armor value.
Below is my current system:
Use 6 inch gun with impactDamagerScaler value of 50 as the basis, and add 50 to the impactDamageScaler with every increase in an inch.
So 8 inch gun will have impact damage scale of 150 (2 x 50 + 50=150), 14 inch gun will have 450, and 16 inch gun 550. And for battleship caliber guns, I'm thinking HE shells with weakened explosionScale might be more appropriate (it's kind of a bummer if 16 inch hit only destroys a single buoyancy block of a destroyer).
For calibers below 6 inch, I'm thinking something like reduction of 10 or 20 with every decrease in an inch. Just a quick idea though, nothing final. Do experiment with it.
Also, ship's HP s(buoyancy and destructible superstructure) hould be tough enough to withstand a hit by the caliber at least twice.
What can we do with this?
We can create an AI ship to fight! (By combining this with other stuff)
I've removed dedicated armor block, as it was redundant with my current model. It can kinda work if you keep the hp of buoyancy block really low, but that creates another problem where even a tiny explosion can bypass armor and destroy a lot of hull blocks (buoyancy blocks).
Also, I can't stress enough that this is largely based on and inspired by the ground vehicle damage model(s) of wernster and others. I couldn't have come up with this if it wasn't for these ideas.
PSA: if you want to put rotating turret and such on your ship, don't make it too heavy (not including target ships - which this one is based on). It messes with gizmos and makes rotator act weird. DamperMultiplier can't fix this. Don't even try to make it weigh as much as the real thing--I did, and it was awful
Specifications
Spotlights
- RussianAce 1.3 years ago
- ollielebananiaCFSP 1.3 years ago
- WaffleCakes 1.3 years ago
- ShiroNeko 1.3 years ago
- LonelyAustrianUhlan 1.3 years ago
- Sparky6004 1.3 years ago
- WHNineTripleOne 1.3 years ago
- IceCraftGaming 1.3 years ago
- 210100 1.3 years ago
- TheCommentaryGuy 1.3 years ago
- FoxG 1.3 years ago
General Characteristics
- Successors 1 airplane(s) +7 bonus
- Created On iOS
- Wingspan 57.4ft (17.5m)
- Length 563.0ft (171.6m)
- Height 132.5ft (40.4m)
- Empty Weight 2,345,703lbs (1,063,994kg)
- Loaded Weight 2,566,279lbs (1,164,046kg)
Performance
- Power/Weight Ratio 0.105
- Wing Loading 178.2lbs/ft2 (869.8kg/m2)
- Wing Area 14,404.8ft2 (1,338.3m2)
- Drag Points 0
Parts
- Number of Parts 207
- Control Surfaces 0
- Performance Cost 766
Everyone,
I've redone the description, and the explanation on how this works is now (hopefully) much clearer and easier to understand. Please check it out!
@Ceilies
I assume you used an explosive cannon or one with high impactDamageScaler? System doesn't work with large explosion or too high an IDS due to the way the game works.
However, after I shot it with 450mm artillery, it broke into many pieces, and it did not sink, but broke out many buoyant pieces.
@VF0111TheRipper easy, make the hp low(below 100), and make the torpedo explosion scale to 0.1 or smaller
Do you know if you can Apply torpedo damage?
Bro is smarter than jundroo
How to turn the ship
@Commander9013
It can, though you must use cannons for it to work. Cant use minigun or wing gun.
I was experimenting with it a while ago actually, though I kinda forgot how well it worked. You should experiment with the idea :)
@IDNSatyaSlebew
No, they should be the normal fuselage blocks
@Kendog84 does the hull must be glass?
Could this also apply to a plane?
@Kendog84 @Farewellntchii
I have fix my problem now, the thing is my ship shouldn't heavier than 200 tons and last time my ship is almost 400 tons, I use wings and rotator as propeller and rudder, for rudder just add more big wings scale down 0.1 but, it really slowdown the ship while turning... .
Use 0.1 wings scalle as propeller is make me only can ratate it at 100% speed, that only make the speed around 19~23 km/h, so i use bigger scalle like 0.25, it can rotate lots faster 10 time, but 4~5 time is enough... .
my ship is almost done just need add main bridge and some AAG, and now i ran out of idea. . . .
yeah wings propeller is not compatible for heavy ship we need use normal engine... .
@Farewellntchii
I haven't finished my next test ships yet, and therefore (haven't) done enough testings yet to see what's really viable, but right now, I'm thinking that a ship should sink when she takes 80-90 (this is for DD) shells of its own main guns. That's based on approx average damage (so it's about x0.35 of
projectileVelocity * impactDamageScaler).And I'm thinking of buoyancy blocks layouts like this 2x7 configuration or this 3x7 configuration
You can get the HP per block by number of hull blocks/(90*damage)
.
Now the part I'm still not sure of is how much impactDamageScalar is appropriate. Higher it is, more pushing force it gets, meaning that a ship will literally be pushed when hit, if it's not heavy enough. My original idea was to translate 1kg of shell weight to 1 IDS, but that would require the ship to be incredibly heavy, if we don't want to see them slide sideways really fast.
So....... maybe we can try 1kg to 1/3 IDS conversion?
If we go by 1/3 conversion, Fuso's main gun damage & HP will be
On a second though, it might make more sense to use displacement as the base value for HP calculation. I'll have to think about this
@KaiserRedGamer
Thanks! I owe a lot of ideas in this to ship building games I used to play (such as BSC and navalcraft), as well as SP tank armor/damage model by another builder named wernster.
.
I'm really hoping people try and develop this concept further. I gotta work on my demo ships too though, I want to show people that we have already everything needed to build ships that can sail on its own on a set path, and aim and fire cannons with FT autoaim (AI used cannon after they expend their missiles (they must be air to air or multirole). Can't wait to have actual ships combat in SP:]
Let me know if you got any cool ideas, too!
@Cosmosavia
Haha thanks, AI ship that can fight you or other AI, is already possible (I'm slooowly building one as a demo build). And don't worry, domination of, not just SP, but all lands on earth is on my agenda. lol
@Oukarine
I'm new to ship building in SP myself, so I can't give you much advice on that, but I'd recommend you study other people's ships. Pay attention to the positions of the rudder/engine, and for rudders, which direction each one turns.
.
There are several ways to do rudders and propulsion (so I've been told). For steering, you can use a wing on a rotator or a VTOL engine + nozzle combo (or, a gyro). One VTOL method I've heard from a friend, is you use 3 VTOL nozzles. One at the bow, one midship, and one stern. Bow and midship ones should turn in the same direction, and stern nozzle should turn to the opposite direction... that's about all I know.
it's interesting, but i have problem while making my ship propeller and rudder to work properly... .
I have fix the propeller to make ship move finely but the rudder still can't make the ship turn like what i want event can't turning the ship... .
I think my ship building style only worke on smaller ship not on battleship or super carrier yet... .
I have been wanting to do something like this with detachers and buoyancy blocks, but this is nearly on another level! Very great.
They did not just build a frickin naval ship. They CREATED A REAL ONE in game, WITHOUT coding experience.
What's next? The whole fleet? Fighting by itself? Invading the main islands dominating the SP World???
@R0gue
Haha, thanks.
I have no programming knowledge, but I was thinking it would be cool if I could build a cool (free, or cheap enough) open-source naval combat building game, in the vein of old Battleship Craft (or WSC) or Navalcraft, that can be played on mobile devices. Something a bit more casual than Navalart, but still has good range of freedom to build really cool stuff. SimplePlanes really does let me do a lot of things I wish I could do on these games, though, and I think a fairly decent module-based combat is still possible on this platform, so I'll stick to SP for now. But thanks for the idea;)
Let me know if you ever decide to build a game like that yourself though, I'd love to throw some ideas at it, lol
By this point, you should work on a module based game of your own ( please consider all platforms ). And don't let bugs slows you, it's about the journey to make a perfect achievement, not the achievement itself !
🇦🇺
@Farewellntchii
I can't quite picture the torpedo thing in my head (illustration might help, if you can draw one for me), but turret blow-up system is very neat. I experimented with magazine detonation & turret launch system, but it didn't work well so ditched the idea at the moment. Sparky6004 has also experimented with it using enlarged torpedo, and it worked quite nice. (Thought it too cane with some caveats)
I'm thinking of a system where, you hide a magazine/barbette shaped & sized cannon underneath the turret and name it "magazine A" or something. Put the turret on a piston or detacher (gonna be finicky because they're gizmos and gizmos behave weird under dome conditions), and make them so they activate when the "magazine A" is destroyed and ammo("magazine A") goes to 0.
@ShiroNeko
Sure, that would be great (accidentally parroted your words, damn lol). Lemme find you...
Oh in the mean time, check this out. I think there is an will be sine interesting discussion there
https://www.simpleplanes.com/a/VuZ4Pf/Damage-mechanics-test-4-explosionScale-impactDamageScaler-explosionScale-muzzl
@Kendog84
That would be great. If you want to, I could help by giving ideas if you're willing to add me on Discord (Silence#3424)