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Dive-bombing with the Stuka-SD, Part II

154k SledDriver  one month ago
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    36.6k Awsomur

    Oh how the mighty have fallen.

    18 days ago
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    1,828 Irobert55

    @SledDriver if i get things correct he sunk with the ships. the allies used his transmission to triangulate bismarcks position so if he survived he would have been the laughing stock of the allied sailors or would have gotten a free trainride to a summer camp in poland.

    one month ago
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    154k SledDriver

    @Irobert55 Wow, that's really interesting. Did the captain survive? He must have kicked himself if he lived to find that out.

    one month ago
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    1,828 Irobert55

    @SledDriver because of the dead range finder radar the captain of the bismarck assumed the allies did know where the ship was when in fact the bismarck had escaped and so he took the radio and mumbled a damage report that was around five minutes long. the allies used this report to find the position of the bismarxk.

    one month ago
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    154k SledDriver

    @Irobert55 Oh, I didn't know that. Interesting.

    one month ago
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    1,828 Irobert55

    @SledDriver it was a basic radar i dont know if the thing had a monitor system but it could detect stuff before it was seen. did you know that the bismarck won againt the royal navy and was only defeated by a construction misshap? the radar of the bismarck was behind b turret and was damaged by the recoil of bismracks b turret the day before the battle against hood.

    one month ago
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    154k SledDriver

    @Irobert55 I looked up the telemobiloscope, it's pretty interesting. It's sobering to realise that the Germans could have developed that into a full-fledged radar by the First World War if they'd pursued the technology further.

    one month ago
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    154k SledDriver

    @Irobert55 Yeah, Hitler was quite stupid in many ways. One of his biggest mistakes was a classic one that many leaders, being "social" people, make -- surrounding himself with people who'd only tell him what he wanted to hear. Goering, for instance, knew that using the Me-262 as fighters was the right thing to do -- but he never even tried to bring Hitler around.

    Officers who tried to tell Hitler the truth were ignored and treated badly:

    Galland, holding forth on the theme that no more time remained for modifications, was shouted down so brusquely by the Führer that he relapsed into silence.

    Milch resumed by explaining calmly to Hitler that to have the Me 262 as a successful two-seater bomber represented a substantial reconstruction for which time was simply too short. Hitler rode over him rough-shod and with such violence of tone that Milch lost his head and shouted back, 'Mein Führer, every child can see that that is not a bomber but a fighter!'

    Following this outburst Hitler turned his back on Milch without replying. Petersen's neighbour leaned towards him and said, 'And that's shot him down in flames.' It was the most apt description of this tragic collision of wills. A door had closed and would not re-open. Nobody knew this better than Milch who merely stood in silence as Hitler turned away from him. At this juncture Milch felt sure that he had reached the end of his career, but it did not depress him; whatever happened next, there was nothing he could do about it.

    one month ago
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    1,828 Irobert55

    @SledDriver the best external weapon that could be mounted on the me262 where bigger rockets than the small r4m rockets. the thing was effectively futureproved without the knowledge how to use it correctly and the a hitler came and everything was going down from there.

    one month ago
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    154k SledDriver

    @Irobert55 Yeah, but regardless of bomb size, it just wasn't effective as a bomber:

    The Me 262 was not equipped with retaining or release gear for bombs, nor fusing installation, nor bombsights. Its flight characteristics and the panorama from the cockpit made it unsuitable for aimed bombing. The only possible bombing tactic was some sort of dive, but this would have involved the aircraft exceeding its permitted maximum speed. Above 950 kph the aircraft was no longer controllable. At low altitude the fuel consumption was so great that no useful penetration over enemy territory was possible, therefore low-flying attacks did not enter into it. All that actually remained was horizontal bombing from altitude. However, under the given circumstances the target needed to be the size of a large town to be certain of obtaining a hit.

    To make things worse, Hitler decreed that Me-262s were forbidden to fly under 12,000 feet over enemy territory, fearing that if they did so they could be shot down and captured. Dropping dumb bombs from horizontal flight at 12,000 feet... you can imagine how effective that was:

    The infantry called us the 'Damage-the-Fields Squadron'.

    one month ago
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    1,828 Irobert55

    @SledDriver not as a bomber but with the capacitys for small bomb payloads of around 50 to 100 kg as most fighters in the luftwaffe could carry easyly. now try to strap big bonbs onto it and the whole fails is done.

    one month ago
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    154k SledDriver

    @Irobert55 The Me-262 may have been planned as a bomber, but was completely unsuited to the bomber role, while being "outstanding" as a fighter. But Hitler had his vision of a blitzbomber, a bomber that would be so fast it could fly through enemy fighter cover with ease and devastate Allied forces as they landed on the beaches of Europe. The Me-262 was doing quite well as a fighter and pilots and top brass of the Luftwaffe were pleading to be given Me-262 fighters, but Hitler was so obsessed with his blitzbomber that he officially forbade anyone from talking about the Me-262 as a fighter:

    At the end of August Hitler circulated throughout the Luftwaffe a Führer-edict which every officer was obliged to sign. This order read: 'With immediate effect I forbid anybody to speak to me about the Me 262 jet aircraft in any other connection or any other role than as a fast or Blitzbomber.'

    This caused a loss of nine months during which the Me-262 could have been very effective at countering Allied air attacks instead of languishing in the clumsy attempt to convert it into a bomber:

    Nine months for possible Me 262 fighter operations had been lost up to the time when Kommando Nowotny was formed. Without question these nine months were decisive for the seizure of air supremacy over the Reich by the Allies, the precondition for the total defeat of Hitler's Germany. Hitler may have sensed that for himself when he suddenly began to demand 'Fighters! Fighters! Only fighters!'

    Kommando Nowotny was formed in October 1944:

    ... on Himmler's advice that it was a simple way of providing evidence in the form of aerial combat victories that the Me 262 was an outstanding fighter aircraft.

    But by then it was too little, too late.

    one month ago
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    1,828 Irobert55

    @SledDriver aparently messerschmidt developed the me262 with bomber capacitys from the getgo but then hitler/ göring wanted to use it purely as a bomber. also the thing started develompment before the war but was stopped more than once because hitler/ göring didnt see the use of a jetplane. like the admirality of the kaiserreich and the telemobiloscope (the telemobiloscope was shown 1904 in cologne by his german inventor and was proven to work but the admirals said nice toy but we dont see a use for it. they ignored the radar as useless).

    one month ago
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    154k SledDriver

    @Irobert55 Yeah, if Hitler hadn't bone-headedly insisted that it be converted to a bomber, who knows how much longer the war would have dragged on. German technology was certainly ahead of the rest of the world in many fields, and was at the heart of the US missile/space program as well.

    one month ago
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    1,828 Irobert55

    @SledDriver the me 262 was a very impressive build. the thing was to late and to early at the same time ans still the best jet over europa at the time. the only plane i know for certain that could match it in air was the mustang (and it was developed by an austrain born man so yes thats even funnier. edgar smued even used his german skills to read the papers of the 262 in german and then using the obtained knowledge to develop the first american jet that was worth its money).

    one month ago
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    154k SledDriver

    Thanks, @scratch

    one month ago
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    1,145 scratch

    this is very nice

    +2 one month ago
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    @SledDriver true

    one month ago
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    154k SledDriver

    @DPSAircraftManufacturer Well, I'd say it's a fighter-bomber. Luckily in SP we don't have real life limitations, so we can load up our planes with as many armaments as we like.

    +2 one month ago
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    @SledDriver Is it a bomber plane?
    AnAnd it's also a fighter plane?

    one month ago
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    154k SledDriver

    @DPSAircraftManufacturer Not sure what you mean...?

    +1 one month ago
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    154k SledDriver

    @Irobert55 That's impressive for that time. I'm just reading a very interesting book about the Me 262, Hitler's Jet Plane by Mano Ziegler. Lots of fascinating info that I haven't seen before.

    one month ago
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    @SledDriver nice

    one month ago
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    1,828 Irobert55

    @IanTheCuberGamer the ju87 divebomber even used a rudimentary autopilot to help the pilots.

    one month ago
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    1,828 Irobert55

    @SledDriver the ju87 even used a rudementary autopilot to help the pilots do their work.

    one month ago
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